Talk:Flashbang Grenade
I am unsure if this would qualify as a tech power, as she is a tech specialist, or as a combat power, because it is a grenade. Either way, it should be noted on the Powers page, in the grid there. Skelethin 04:49, April 9, 2010 (UTC) Power image I don't have the Kasumi DLC to verify: Does this power really have the same image as neural shock, or did someone just put it as a placeholder? Dammej 05:42, June 12, 2010 (UTC) :It does. Darkman 4 05:55, June 12, 2010 (UTC) ::'Preciate it. Dammej 06:25, June 12, 2010 (UTC) strange behavior ive been using this power for a few days now on my soldier and it seems to behave very strangely. besides the toss distance which seems a bit uncontrollable at times which could be dismissed as user error though i dont believe that, sometimes the thing just seems to not work. ill toss it at a pack of husks and it will knock down 2/3 of them, but a couple just keep on coming like nothing happened.... or you toss one next to two guys and it knocks down the far one, but the one closest to the grenade just keeps on shooting at you like nothing happened. all in all i think it verges on overpowered as a control ability and its still pretty awesome for that effect, these random issues of just failing to affect targets makes it feel like you are gambling using it over another power that you know will have the desired effect. :I've found it sometimes does nothing against husks, no matter the range. Other times it seems like Bioware has simply mistaken metres for feet or outright lied about the radius. Delspencerdeltorro (talk) 22:15, August 23, 2013 (UTC) Against Husks Has anyone noticed that if you use it on armored husks, it would kill all the husks in the vincinity whether they are armored or not. Except the one that you are targeting (if it is armored it survives, if it isn't it dies just like the rest).-- 05:03, March 22, 2011 (UTC) Hocks soldiers Not sure but I think Hock's soldier use flashbangs as well. :Yes and so do a number of enemies and this is mentioned on their respective pages. That kind of information is irrelevant here. Lancer1289 13:41, April 29, 2011 (UTC) Enemies Knocking Your Shields Out I posted a blog on this a while ago, but got only one response. Has anybody ever experienced an enemy instantly blowing out your shields with a Flashbang? The blast (if you can call it a blast) has to actually hit you, so the grenade has to land behind your cover (if you're in cover, of course). It has happened to me time and time again, but I cannot add this to the wiki since Lancer has never encountered this. And in case your wondering: no, this shield drain cannot possibly be enemies shooting at you whilst you're blinded; it is an instantaneous shield knockout, like the Scion's infamous shockwave attack. If I have to, I'll try and add some screenshots. Bear in mind, though, it'll be hard to time a screenshot so it shows the instant a grenade goes off. Tali's no.1 fan 21:11, May 7, 2011 (UTC) :Well, how's this for proof? I've never uploaded a picture before, so it's a bit ropey. And I know there's a policy against showing Shepard in pictures. But you can clearly see from this picture that my shields have gone down at the instant the Flashbang went off. Surely this is proof enough to add this phenomenon to all relevant enemy articles. Tali's no.1 fan 19:34, June 8, 2011 (UTC) ::2 days and nobody's even taken notice of my luckiest ever screenshot? Tali's no.1 fan 20:40, June 10, 2011 (UTC) :::If no one wants to comment I'll just assume the all-clear for adding this feature to the relevant enemy pages. Tali's no.1 fan 14:20, June 11, 2011 (UTC) ::::First, that wouldn't be cause to add it, in fact it would probably be removed. Second, I'm not convinced as the image is just a bright light. You can't see anything else so you don't know if there is anything else that took down the shields. I can't say this is proof. Lancer1289 14:58, June 11, 2011 (UTC) Look at the shield bar above the health bar. It's full. This means my shields were taken down instantly and there are very few things in the game which can do that. I'm frankly astounded that you won't accept this. Do you think I would lie about this? How would that benefit me? Tali's no.1 fan 15:11, June 11, 2011 (UTC) :When did I accuse you of lying? Where did I say you were? I have seen numerous other things that can take down shields in one shot, and considering we can't see anything else, I'm not convinced. I also have my gameplay experience where I've literally stepped on a flashbang, two in some cases exploding right beneath me, and what do you know, no shield drain. Lancer1289 15:18, June 11, 2011 (UTC) ::You didn't accuse me of lying but I get the strong impression that you think I am because you obviously don't believe me. This screenshot is on Arrival at the start of the "stabilise the reactor level". And the reason you can't see anything else is because I've been hit by a Flashbang, which I thought was obvious. Given that you can see the blinding effect in conjunction with my shields instantly going down, this screenshot shows quite clearly that it was the Flashbang that initiated said action. What else could it possibly be? It's obviously not a Scion. Tali's no.1 fan 15:27, June 11, 2011 (UTC) :::Again where did I state you were lying? I never said you were so please stop putting words into my mouth. I'm saying you can't see anything, so it is unknown if there is anything else causing the shield drain. Also, about my own experience? Do we just ignore that? Lancer1289 15:34, June 11, 2011 (UTC) ::::CAN YOU READ? I just said explicitly that I know you didn't accuse me of lying, but you obviously don't believe me. And if you don't think I'm lying and you don't believe me, how else do you explain what I have been experiencing every time I meet enemies with Flashbangs? And what about everything else I said in my last post? Are you just going to ignore that? I am at this moment searching for video evidence and I consider it a waste of my time. So to save both of us time why don't you just admit that their may be things in ME2 that you may have missed? Honestly, why would adding this information be so terrible? Tali's no.1 fan 15:42, June 11, 2011 (UTC) :::::Wow, I really don't know what to say about that. Yes I can read, and yes there are probably things I missed, yet on every occasion that you keep bring this issue up, you completely ignore my gameplay experience, even when I present very specific examples, you just write it off. I did say that we can't see if anything else does it as I've stated there are things that can take down shields/barriers in one hit, and not just Scions. I'm not ignoring what you say, but rather it is you who is ignoring my examples where I've stated that I've had not one, but two flashbangs explode beneath me, and the only thing that happens is I'm knocked out of cover, and my shields/barriers are intact but are then depleted by gunfire/powers/something else. I again state that I've had plenty of examples where I've had flashbangs explode near/under me and I'm only knocked out of cover with full shields. So what do you say to that because you have ignored my examples on multiple occasions with no attempt to counter them, only outright ignoring/dismissing them and I can point to one example in this very conversation. Lancer1289 15:53, June 11, 2011 (UTC) Could it be a bug/glitch? Sure it's weird, since it works in different ways for different people. I can't say anything since I don't have any Flashbang Grenade-related DLC, but I guess more people should be asked about it. --kiadony 16:05, June 11, 2011 (UTC) This is how I counter your experience, Lancer: "it has not happened to you, but it has happened to me". On the subject of shield regeneration by enemies this seems enough proof for you that the phenomenon exists. But you have not, however, provided a screenshot or anything to back yourself up, whereas I have here. I have also put forth why this screenshot proves my point. Yet all you do is say we can't see what's going on. Listen to my argument: the screenshot shows my shields going down instantly and it shows a Flashbang grenade detonating. It is these two facts that I am using as solid evidence to back myself up. These two facts in conjunction with the fact there is obviously nothing else present that is instantly knocking out my shields. Tell me: how else do you explain what my screenshot shows? Tali's no.1 fan 16:12, June 11, 2011 (UTC) :Yet in this case your screenshot could also be from after a flashbang detonates. While the effect fades somewhat quickly, it does last a few seconds which could also result in the image and shields being depleted due to other factors. It certainly leaves that image on the screen for a while. I can go on YouTube and find videos of flashbangs detonating near players, and no shields being depleted. As for screenshots, I don't know how to do this myself on my PC or take videos. Not to mention I don't have a YouTube account to begin with. Lancer1289 16:20, June 11, 2011 (UTC) ::Hmm, PrintScreen? --kiadony 16:21, June 11, 2011 (UTC) You are still missing what I have said, Lancer. The shield bar is full and shown above the health bar, so it has obviously been taken down instantly. If anything else had instantly depleted my shields you would also see their effect and anyway, there is nothing else on Arrival that can take your shields down instantly. The only other instant shield drain ability I can think of is the Scion shockwave and there are none on Arrival. Even enemy rockets don't deplete your shields instantly. At least not at the end of the game and with multiple shield-boosting armour parts. Furthermore, you are now certainly suggesting that I have uploaded a misleading picture. Why would I take the screenshot after something else had knocked out my shields? I took the screenshot by waiting for the Flashbang's detonation sound and instantly hitting Print Screen (Yes, Kiadony is right, there). Please, just believe me. I have other things to do besides this argument. Tali's no.1 fan 16:35, June 11, 2011 (UTC) :I remember meleeing an explosive container (heh), and it depleted my shield (or rather, barrier) instantly despite having all of them upgrades and being level 30. Obviously that can't be mistaken for a grenade, but it's another thing that can have such an effect. --kiadony 16:41, June 11, 2011 (UTC) ::(edit conflict)I'm not even suggesting that you uploaded an image that you believe is genuine, and I resent the accusation that I again have assumed you of something that I never implied. I still have my doubts and I still can't take that as proof as there could be other things that could have caused, especially coupled with my own extensive gameplay experience in this matter. You asking me to believe something that I cannot is honestly a bit insulting, even if that wasn't your intent, and I don't believe it was. You believe what you believe, and I believe what I believe, so until someone else comments, let's just leave it at that and let's not attempt to force beliefs on others and let people speak from their experiences alone, which is what I'm doing. Lancer1289 16:47, June 11, 2011 (UTC) :There seems to be some confusion that I've noticed here. What difficulties are you playing on? I haven't tried this myself but perhaps shields may go down on insanity but not on normal. Freakium 17:51, June 11, 2011 (UTC) ::I always play on Hardcore. Tali's no.1 fan 18:03, June 11, 2011 (UTC) Had some really good laugh reading this debate. Anyway, what if this shield effect is pertinent to Hardcore and Insanity only? :What did you find funny? Tali's no.1 fan 17:25, June 17, 2011 (UTC) ::I'd also like to add that my shields are not always taken out by Flashbangs. I played Arrival yesterday and had various amounts of damage done to me (including one occaision when the grenade landed right under me and did no damage at all and didn't even knock me out of cover). This is actually unusual for me. Tali's no.1 fan 17:28, June 17, 2011 (UTC) :::I didn't realize there was a debate about this. It happened to me several times during Lair of the Shadow Broker. The best place is during the sequence where you are following Vasir, right after she crashes the car on the rooftop. You end up with several waves of enemies, and they constantly toss grenades. Since I had cover, there was no question about it - my shields were being eaten by the flashbangs. I'll fire it up later and see if I can replicate it and make a video documenting it. --Snicker 04:52, June 18, 2011 (UTC) ::::That would be greatly appreciated. My unending thanks in advance! Tali's no.1 fan 16:50, June 18, 2011 (UTC) :::::Uploading now - should take about an hour to upload, then we'll see what Youtube does with it. --Snicker 18:25, June 18, 2011 (UTC) ::::: Video has been uploaded. Hopefully this works - haven't uploaded to youtube before, nor have I tried to put one on a wiki. I tried to add some annotation - dunno if it's working or not, but the video should be obvious. Not sure if shield strength makes a difference, but my character was an infiltrator, I can get you his shield mods at the time if you think it matters. --Snicker 20:25, June 18, 2011 (UTC) ::::::Not I'm just dying to see how Lancer is going to dismiss this! Will be unfortunately if he doesn't though. The debate was fun. Mitranim 20:57, June 18, 2011 (UTC) Okay, you're on your own, Tali. I'm done here. Lancer decided to delete the video and didn't even comment on it. I've read the policy, and I understand how it applies to articles, but this was a discussion page regarding a specific issue that he refuses to believe without proof. The policy is inconsistent within itself, and to apply it in a completely draconian manner without even responding to it on the discussion page is proof that Lancer is uninterested in any opinion other than his own. That, combined with the complete lack of admin comment on the last issue that the mods didn't agree with, and Lancer's decision to ignore the community decision on the last thing he didn't agree with has completely convinced me that there is no saving this wiki. Good luck, and please continue to enjoy Lancer and Sparthawg's Mass Effect Wiki. --Snicker 23:03, June 18, 2011 (UTC) :This is hilarious. And I bet Lancer will be suspicious of me showing up here.SlayerEGO1342 01:36, June 19, 2011 (UTC) ::Please keep comments on topic. A couple things, Snicker: how is the policy that prohibits the uploading of videos inconsistent? No video is permitted to be uploaded on this wiki, and any videos that are uploaded are deleted on sight. There are no exceptions to this policy that I'm aware of. If you want to provide video evidence of something, you can upload it elsewhere and post a link to it or even embed it here. Next, your "last issue" link to the Kasumi: Stealing Memory talk page doesn't go to any specific section, so I'm unable to identify any alleged topics that admins didn't respond to (although admins aren't necessarily required to get involved in a particular discussion); the only topic there you ever commented on has multiple comments from Spart and Lancer and one from myself, so I don't see what you're getting at by bringing it up. Lastly, if you have a dispute with a user here, you should try and discuss that with the user on their talk page, or, exhausting that, make a formal complaint to Spart or an uninvolved admin. As I've warned you before, article talk pages are not the appropriate venue for these things. Now for the matter at hand, I've watched the video and it appears to be proof enough that enemy Flashbang Grenades can take out Shepard's shields. For what it's worth, I'm convinced; if the purpose of this thread is still to get a note about this effect added into the appropriate enemy articles, the proposal has my support. -- Commdor (Talk) 02:46, June 19, 2011 (UTC) :::Commdor hit it on the head. Lancer correctly enforced policy: No videos stored on the wiki, no exceptions. The issue was not with the video itself, it was with where it was stored. Note that the link to youtube you have provided has not been censored at all. The reason? it doesn't violate policy to link to an off-site video. Videos can and have been discussed on talk pages before, and I feel like this one will benefit the discussion just as videos in the past have. That it isn't stored on the wiki itself is (or should be) a non-issue. That you lashed out and assumed bad faith on Lancer's part is regrettable. I hope that, upon reflection, you will see that Lancer's actions were not motivated by any animosity towards you (perceived or otherwise), but instead wholly couched in his desire to uphold the policies that have been in place at the wiki since (almost) its inception. :::On the subject matter: I am glad that a definitive video has been provided detailing the shield-destroying effect of the grenade. I recall experiencing the effect myself, but have been unable to get a good capture. Thank you, Snicker, for your dedication in creating a scenario which clearly demonstrates the effect. I vote that the note be added to the article post-haste! -- Dammej (talk) 05:44, June 19, 2011 (UTC) Well, there seems to be no need to comment here. An admin and a a senior editor seem to have it well in hand. However, I will address a few points, directing them at the users in question: *Lancer1289 - Tali's no.1 fan never said accused you of stating he/she (sorry, I probably know this one, but my memory is shot atm) was lying. Tali's no.1 fan attempted to deescalate the situation by pointing this out more than once. Further comments along the lines of 'Did I ever accuse you lying', 'when did I ever accuse you of lying' after Tali's no.1 fan's comment stating "You didn't accuse me of lying but I get the strong impression that you think I am because you obviously don't believe me." were counterproductive and distracting, drawing attention away from the matter at hand. *Tali's no.1 fan - comments like "CAN YOU READ?" are counterproductive to the discussion, and border on violation of site policy. *kiadony - as usual, good solid productive edits aimed at furthering the discussion. *Snicker - Commdor and Dammej are correct - Lancer enforced a site policy that has been in existence for years when he deleted the video. No more, no less. You're free to embed the video, or to provide a link to it. You just can't upload the video to the wiki itself. As for the Kasumi/ogre issue, my bad. I meant to respond to your last comment, and will in fact do so shortly. Last night I was very tired, and spent most of my time putting out proverbial fires, so commenting on it slipped my mind. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by my response, and I hope this and the promised response alleviate your concerns and dispel the facetious notion that this is, in any way, "Lancer and Sparthawg's Mass Effect Wiki". Those assertions are as baseless as ever, and got old some time ago. *Mitranim and SlayerEGO1342] - if you have nothing to contribute to the discussion, and seek only to inflame and instigate, please do it elsewhere. Thanks. *Commdor and Dammej - you guys are awesome. That about sums it up for me. SpartHawg948 06:07, June 19, 2011 (UTC) :Sparthawg, I won't be editing this wiki anymore. As I said, I'm done here. I cannot in good conscience continue to dedicate my time and energy to a community that encourages behaviour that is antithetical to standard wiki policies - specifically the section on edits made in good faith. :Whether or not your video policy has been here for years, it exists only in a small note in the FAQ, and not in the style guide, and even at that, the FAQ indicates that there is some flexibility on that policy. If you truly want a zero tolerance policy on video uploads, you can contact Wikia staff to have the video upload extension disabled (I looked it up for you). I'm sure that you will find that they are quite helpful in this regard. :Given that the file would not have appeared on an article page, I am unsure what the harm was, but your staff seems satisfied with a knee-jerk reaction rather than discussing the content before deleting it. In fact, I seem to recall in other instances that there was discussion before an offending file was deleted, but not in this case. The better response would have been for him to take the 2 minutes he spent deleting the file, watching the video, then commenting and deleting it. At least then, I would have assumed good faith on his part. Call me paranoid, but it seems like whenever there are two options, Lancer takes the one that is least likely to engender good will, and I am sick of it. Time and again, I have provided edits in good faith, and time and again they have been abused. Between his snarky attitude and knee-jerk reactions to every single edit, this place is not a "fun community." :Sparthawg - I've been editing wikis since before Wikipedia existed. (Back then we just called them "online encyclopedias"). I've got thousands of pages to my name. Not edits. Pages. I have NEVER had this many problems with any community or any single editor, and I know I'm not the only one - one look at your talk page is enough to verify that. I'm truly unsure what is going on behind the scenes, but I hope you can figure it out because I hate to see so much strife, and so many people leave because of just one person. :In the meantime, I'll just leave this here. : :--Snicker 06:48, June 19, 2011 (UTC) I'm sorry to see you go, but won't try and keep you if that's what you wish. I do hope to see you back sometime, and will take the time to address a few of your comments: *RE the video policy - yes, it is only one line in our FAQ. Many policies are one-liners, with no elaboration. For example, the policy on edit warring. I see no relevance to the discussion. The "flexibility" you speak of is evidenced here. Your video was allowed, was it not? Videos are permitted on user pages and talk pages, permitted they are embedded, not uploaded. As for lack of discussion, yes, there was a time when discussions took place and videos were treated the same as articles, with delete tags and 7-day periods and all that. Then it was decided by the admins that, as video uploads are violations of site policy, they could be deleted outright. I myself delete videos outright, as I would with anything that violates site policy. I hope you won't judge my actions as "knee-jerk", or assume it's bad faith. *As for the assertion that this is not a "fun community", all I can do is point out that I and many others disagree. Again, I'm sorry to see you leave. But personal differences aren't something I can control, nor would I if I could. They're human nature. You are, of course, welcome back any time. SpartHawg948 07:11, June 19, 2011 (UTC) Wow. This is what I get for living in the UK. First I'd like to thank all of you who've made productive and unbiased comments on this issue, especially Sparthawg (and by the way I am a "he"). Also, I want to apologise for my previous attitude in the discussion; usually I try to keep a level head but I admittedly lost it last week and for that I am sorry. I give Snicker a world of thanks for taking the time to upload a video on this matter and I do hope you will not leave the wiki. Finally, since we now have definite evidence of this and since at least one admin and one senior editor has given their consent to adding this feature of Flashbangs to the wiki, I will be adding it to each appropriate page in the next few moments. I breathe a sigh of relief that this debate is finally over and I hope we can all put any animosities behind us and continue to build a productive community. Tali's no.1 fan 14:33, June 19, 2011 (UTC) :He. Got it! Also, as for Snicker, too late. Snicker has already gone over to the wiki founded by the group we've come to know as the "ME Wiki haters". I doubt we'll be seeing him again, given that he even dropped a promising effort to get suitable proof regarding the ogre statue in Kasumi's loyalty mission. He basically told me (oddly enough) "Screenshots can be faked, so you can't trust them. You can trust me though, so take my word at face value." Whatever. Back to the point... your comment is greatly appreciated, particularly your kind words for everyone involved and your last sentence in particular. That marks you as a real class act (the actual kind, not the sarcastic "you're a real class act, you know that?") SpartHawg948 18:20, June 19, 2011 (UTC) I'm staying out of the argument but I will add that last night while playing Arrival a flashbang that landed behind me while I was in cover not only stripped my shields instantly it also knocked me out of cover in a similar way to Harbinger's slow attack. There was definitely no other explanation as I had just dropped the last enemy on the battlefield when it went off.Garhdo 08:52, June 20, 2011 (UTC) :Err...the argument is finished. Tali's no.1 fan 16:00, June 20, 2011 (UTC) Flashbang works past protection? Can someone confirm Flashbang works against protections consistently? Or are some enemies immune? I tried it in Freedom's Hope. Worked against LOKIs but did not appear to do anything at all to FENRISes or Drones. Grail Quest (talk) 08:57, March 10, 2014 (UTC)